Hang onto
your wallet!!! #6

It’s 2009 and he is still rehashing concepts from the 90’s but with 2010 pricing.
Two and a half pages and he provides no helpful information.

Yamaha Sled Talk – Blog Archive – Ride Straight
January 22, 2009

Ride Straight

One of the most common product requests we have is, at first blush, a very simple one and one that I constantly get from friends in the media as well as our dealers. When is Yamaha going to change the ski’s to something newer?

Good question. I will likely raise a couple of eyebrows for trying to address this but I think most of you will understand and appreciate that I am only offering another opinion to the ongoing conversation. Truth be known we have been working on a new ski, off and on for several years… still are. I won’t go into the details but one thing we face at every turn is patent frustration. There are only so many things you can do to a ski (or carbide) and over the years most have been done and many patents filed. We are splitting hairs to find something that doesn’t come close to someone elses design. Funny thing however, I am not all that convinced we really need one!

Now I better explain that! From a marketing POV we absolutely need a new ski, simply because of all the negative comments I’ve heard and read both in print and on line. From a performance and handling POV, those who have experimented with some of the latest carbide runner designs will most likely concur with the following opinion:

It is not the ski so much as the carbide runner that needs to be addressed.

In fact, our current ski has changed significantly, since its first inception in 1999. It has seen numerous updates and versions. We still have part numbers for the shallow keel (Vmax style) deep keel (ViperS/early RX-1) mid keel (Apex/Vector) saddle type (original), saddle-less (current), wide (TF/VK) and mountain. Within each of those categories there have been tweaks to keel angles as well as axle mounting locations.

Interesting side bar: Jon has been experimenting with our wide ski on his XTX after trying one at a joint test. He pulled the boards off an 09 Venture TF along with a set of piggy back Floats and bolted it all up. Low and behold, the steering effort was terrible, making it harder to maneuver, but the darting was improved. Turns out the sled he rode in the US had VK skis, not TF skis which appear identical, hmmm, upon closer inspection the mounting hole is not the same (ahead of the VK Pro) consequently the TF boards are pulled back towards the snow-flap effectively changing everything. The lesson in this should be applied to any aftermarket or OEM ski-swap. Has the chosen ski been developed for and tested on the sled in question? Slap on a set of Pilots designed for a different chassis and weight bias and expectations are what?

Before proceeding, I must drop in a little caveat: ‘Darting’ is characteristic of snowmobiling. All snowmobiles will exhibit darting under certain conditions, it is the nature of the beast when there are many sled tracks in packed snow.

If you are looking to reduce (eliminate) darting, dial in the amount of ‘push’ or understeer and or improve predictability, these can all be achieved to a large degree by simply changing the carbide runners. You really don’t need to change the ski to make some significant alterations to the ride character. I am not saying you won’t get similar results from a new set of skis (however there are many types and levels) but the runner, IMHO is at the crux of the matter.

There is an interesting ‘poll’ thread on-going over on TY discussing the virtues of two particular carbide designs. I was able to relate as I began my ski experiments a long time ago. I will only go as far back as the first RX-1 deep-keel where I discovered I was not man enough to hang onto the bars of the beast using the stock set-up. That first year I upgraded the sway-bar to a 13 mill with the new links, changed to the mid-keel ski (a gift from a friend in testing) and hooked up the rear end with a pre-pro RipSaw track, much better, but still ‘darting’, next came thicker host bar, more aggressive carbides, more ski lift…

The following year I moved to the Simmons ski which was working pretty good until I got behind a bunch of REV tracks which btw, seemed strikingly similar to the Simmons… gave them away to Tom and moved back to a mid-keel and duallies… Things got a lot smoother but a small top speed loss and a few missing chips had me thinking. Along comes the Apex (same ski) and more new players in the dual carbide game, tried a couple more designs then stumbled upon a new single skag out of Quebec which came highly recommended from some respected dealer friends (Irwin’s and Markham Mower) The Cobra Head by Qulaipiece offered some quantifiable benefits with its integrated ‘corrector’ (which I first remember seeing in UHMW form coming out of Quebec when everyone had steel skis, to reduce darting 15 years ago). I have been running these for a couple of seasons until now, which after reading about the Snowtrackers and Supertrax and researching them, I decided to give a set a try. I am going to save my evaluation for another day but I will say I am impressed and quite satisfied with the handling traits. I have not felt any sled track straighter than what I have experienced so far with these on my Apex. I am using the semi-aggressive Snowtracker but I still need to try the aggressive model for comparison. (many thanks to my friend Richard (Coyote) for looking me up.)

Another thing that strikes me, the original corrector, (the plastic shim that was affixed to the front on many ski’s to reduce darting), came out of Quebec and currently (IMHO) the best hi-tech single skag carbides all have built in ‘correctors’ and also come out of Quebec. I conclude that the Quebec trail system which is ranked as one of the best in the world, has led the charge of anti-darting accessories as a result of the smooth, fast and snowy conditions which are their norm. Maybe this is just a Canadian thing but I don’t think so, it is just more prevalent on fast, smooth trails.

Most of the trails I have ridden in the mid-west are so tight and bumpy it’s hard to realize the level of darting because there is so much other stuff going on. My point is, not everyone will experience the same level of ‘darting’ based on the local conditions and perhaps the runner will not be so important to the overall handling. That said however I still maintain that any of our performance snowmobiles can benefit from a high-tech runner to some degree and the vast majority of owners do not need to change out the ski to achieve great handing.

I think of carbides much as I do tires. Most OE tires on cars and trucks are cheap versions that eventually get replaced with superior rubber to yield improved traction and handling. Like carbides, stock tires are a wearable part that will do the job but when it comes time to replace, most performance minded drivers will select something more suited to their conditions and preference.

Whenever I am asked what one thing would I recommend to dial in a Yamaha trail sled, assuming a good PDI (including ski alignment, 0-toe and suspension set-up), I always say a new set of carbide runners. Bake the stockers and try something new. It’s not a one size fits all formula, you have to do a little research considering all the conditions under which you ride, overall sled set-up and riding style. I am convinced the right carbide will negate the need for a new ski and enhance your overall experience and satisfaction.

I don’t know who the writer is but he does seem to have connections to Yamaha and TY.

I find this confusing because at the end of the 07 season Yamaha bought 4” Triple Points, ¼” & 3/8” Ski Savers and shims for comparison in handling. They were sent to Tomahawk, WI but the testing was done in AK.

I told them to put the ¼” shims on and ride their carbide to set a starting point. I also told them to use the ¼” Ski Savers with the Triple Points with ¼” shims next. I told them the 3/8” Ski Savers would reduce the effort to turn the handlebars, if needed. They never asked me any questions and I never heard of any results.

The fact the 2008 Nytro was a dangerous sled totally baffled me. They did everything just the opposite of my shimming instructions. I don’t think it was an accident! For 09 they stayed true to form. They negated any effect of the front of the rubber stops and only brought the rear back to the 07 height.

Add to that all the comments about shimming on TY and yet he ignores the whole concept. CARBIDES ARE NOT THE KEY TO CONTROL!!!

I will be providing product information to help his faulty memory.